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20140730 08:22 Serenity ***SPAM?*** A staff restaurant http://www.funnel.ca/cash-advance-hollywood/ how to get bank account 708 Exceeds NY Allowable Refill Maximum
20140730 07:37 Glenmore TW - end times; on our way back from dinner Sunday we drove through thousands of huge black locusts on US-51, just walking across the road (and getting squashed) for miles. I've never seen them like that before.
20140730 06:29 trailing wife Wait ------- the Cubs won?!?!!! Is the world about to end?
20140730 02:36 3dc bottom of the 16th they run out of pitchers and the cubs win. heh
20140730 02:31 3dc I have more including some buildings not rehabbed when I photoed.
20140730 02:30 3dc Pappy - sent a few to your gmail including view of the ocean
20140730 02:26 Alaska Paul Pappy---Thanks for posting that John Hiatt song. Very enjoyable.
20140730 02:02 3dc 15th inning ... bed or watch?
20140729 22:21 Pappy Some John Hiatt:

20140729 22:19 Pappy If you can find them, that'd be great.
20140729 13:09 3dc Pappy, a few years back, the wife's wealthy college buddy wanted a penthouse in San Fran. The husband didn't so she challenged him to find better. He found an architecture commune for sale on 40 acres looking over Half-Moon Bay. It had 5 or 7 (I forget) homes on it. Each home started out as a Quonset hut. Free form concrete was used in and out. Lots of interesting decks and spaces. It was a cheap, interesting space for a home. If you want I can look in my photo archive and see if I can find some photos to show you. Any one of them could have been in Architecture Today and none would have approached the $1,000,000 price range to build. His purchase was great as he got the land very very cheap.
20140729 09:56 Skidmark The convenience of using water as solar mass is you can move it around from the collectors in the day to the floor at night.
20140729 02:55 OldSpook Deac & Grunter - The dig back into the hill helps reduce the temperature swings, and heating the floor while putting the cooling in the ceiling helps use natural convection to reduce the amount of forced air needed for circulation and heating/cooling dispersion.

As for the time it takes to warm the floor taking too long, thats a matter of a traditional on/off thermostat versus something a bit more "anticipatory" smart that would be used for such a system. If it takes too long to "warm up" then you're waiting too long to turn it on, or letting it get too cool between cycles. With a large thermal mass, like the concrete floor with hardwood over it and insulation under it, you'd probably be better off with a lot of small short cycles to maintain time, rather than the typical long run to attain it and then a shut off until it dips low again. Unlike forced air, there is a thermal reserve to be leveraged.

Same goes for the cooling, I would think - and again, I'd put that in the ceiling. If you're hot, you tend to cool the head first, if its cold, you tend to warm the feet. Basic circulation.

Also Grunter, when I was at Pine Gap, I had the pleasure of discovering just how cool and quiet it is sleeping in an underground bedroom thats actually designed as one (as opposed to a bunker I slept in once upon a time, damned generators and vent system). Outside in the daylight it was like being in an oven (February), in the room? Sleep was good. Almost too quiet, had to turn on music down low.

It was a TDY, wish I had been there during the winter - I've been told its a great place to go to get absolutely alone if you want to - just drive 30 minutes out of town, turn left into the bush for 15 minutes, and boom, nobody within miles.
20140728 16:43 badanov Some Monday afternoon Glenn Miller w/ Marion Hutton as vocalist...

20140728 14:46 OldSpook O club doesn't like edits from an iPad apparently
20140728 14:15 OldSpook
20140728 08:34 Pappy Wright did a lot of schtuff that the technology wasn't ready for yet. Like sealing the pyrex tubing in the Johnson building...
20140728 08:08 Deacon Blues OS the biggest drawback to water tubes in the floor is the high heat and cool time. I researched a Wright house in Florence, Alabama back in my architecture school days. The owner, Stanley Rosenbaum, told me it took too long for the floor to get warm. Once it did he said it worked fairly well but was difficult to regulate. In a climate where there are large temperature swings you spend some of the time either too hot or too cold. In summer the feet and legs up too the knees are cool but upper body is not unless there is some type of air moving system. Systems are probably better now.
20140728 05:32 trailing wife Only one spam to kill this morning, yay! And Fred's filter reports 641 caught since midnight.
20140727 23:37 Pappy I surprised he didn't mention polio in Pakistan and eastern Afghanistan, or HIV in Africa, or the rise of respiratory diseases in China.
20140727 23:34 Grunter On the subject of underground houses, a friend had a "dugout" in the opal mining town of coober pedy. Dugouts are excavated into the side of a hill with mining equipment, can be as spacious as you like, and- what I remember best- the temperature inside is always in the exact middle of the Goldilocks zone, and the total, absolute, silence at night- the best sleep ever. Bliss.
20140727 23:28 Alaska Paul We are going to need some serious tonnages of lime in disease hotspots.
20140727 23:15 Pappy Evening. One from wretchard:

During the Roman empire manufacturers traded throughout its length and breadth. It was a world without passports, a place in which St. Paul could say "civis Romanus sum" and claim protection. When Roman order collapsed the world suddenly got bigger. Journeys of a week became detours of a month until they finally stopped altogether. There was a consequent collapse in trade and manufacture for export. Administrative, educational and military infrastructure quickly vanished, and the loss of the established cursus honorum led to the collapse of the schools and to a rise of illiteracy even among the leadership.

It could never happen again. Or could it? Although the world is far from the Dark Ages, to a modest degree, yet quite distinctly, the process of globalization has retreated for the first time perhaps since the Second World War. Aviation experts believe that whole air corridors may soon be closed or significantly re-routed as the increasing capability of anti-air weapons are available to Ďmilitantsí. The other challenge of globalization is the spread of infectious disease. The ultimate carry-on bomb may be a virus.

Millions of people are now moving by air or road. They bring whatever health problems they have with them. One of the challenges of the breakdown on the US southern border is that ICE isnít screening for infectious diseases, instead relying on self-reporting. Antibiotic-resistant TB is probably getting through. The good news is it isnít ebola. Africa is now in the throes of the worst outbreak of that disease in history. It is killing the doctors. It has spread by air travel to the mega-city of Lagos. Nobody knows where it stops because it is traveling along the same roads, railroads and airliners that are the highways of globalization. There is no cure for ebola. The only defense of the authorities is enforcing draconian quarantine and the ruthless disposal of cadavers. Unfortunately most African governments are really nothing but corrupt cabals of bureaucrats. And many Africans see Ebola in witch-disease terms. What happens when ebola meets traditional Africa? Epidemic. The Bokoh Haram donít believe in quarantine, being no respecter of borders, orders or law. They donít believe in Western knowledge. Once ebola hitches a ride with the Boko Haram who can say what will happen?

Globalization has had a good run. But itís hitting some speed bumps. Letís hope air travel recovers. Of course aircraft have other uses besides travel.
20140727 21:08 badanov They just don't write 'em like that anymore.
20140727 20:39 Pappy From the wayback machine:

20140727 19:39 Frank G LOL - I will. I have 15 weeks of vacation on the books, and I'm burnt. I need more time off at strategic times
20140727 19:03 Pappy The trip, I mean.
20140727 18:50 Pappy Enjoy, Frank.
20140727 15:47 Frank G so, I'm on a cell-conference call with Alaska Paul and 3DC. Paul says: "we'll have to have another 3-way soon"

not good, amirite?

On the road to Tahoe next week, so if you see "Frank G on the road", I'm loving life
20140727 12:13 Pappy Some of it will work in the desert; a lot won't.

I'd like to do in in-ground, or 'dirt-submerged', house. There's a couple of them in the Phoenix area.
20140727 11:37 Dale OS works fine. Amish did it in a small dry goods store in my area. Wood heated outside so no mess inside. Windmills not turning? Tied to energy market. Fracking and gas production have reduced costs so much not economically profitable to operate.
20140727 11:31 3dc http://youtu.be/lQCXibl7uIE
20140727 10:49 Skidmark Hot air will naturally rise. Vent that out a sloped ceiling/roof and you draw like a fireplace. Put a solar mass cistern/cellar under the house and draw the feed air through that space for humidifying and cooling.
100 degrees in @30%, 70 degrees out @70% and pre-warmed water for the solar water heater.
20140727 10:30 OldSpook I've always been impressed by the water-tubes-in-the-floor heating since I first ran into it in Germany decades ago, and the engineering side of it when visiting roman ruins. I imagine that putting your heating in the floor when needed, and your cooling in the ceiling when needed, that would induce some natural convection, reducing the amount of forced air needed for healthy circulation.

Warm feet in the winter, cool head in the summer. Just makes sense, but I'd need an architect and a structural engineer to give the numbers a reality check. That's why this is my "if I hit the lottery" house.
20140727 10:21 Steve White Drinks are on the house this Sunday morning: the Instapundit wants to "go all Curtis Lemay" on Hamas, which I think qualifies as an Arclight...
20140727 08:18 Pappy Wright also borrowed the tubes-in-floor for his Usonian designs.

20140727 05:36 badanov I think we have slowed down the spammers to a mild roar.
20140727 05:10 Skidmark Don't forget the north facing blast wall (to block the winter winds, of course), the ingress/egress blast pockets (entry door vestibules), viewport armor (rolling shutters) and CBR filtration (for dust & allergens).
20140727 01:20 OldSpook Anyhoo, Regarding me being a hobbit, I got some of the ideas, Pappy from the same place Wright did -- based on what the early pioneers/settlers in the west did: dig back into a hill below the crest for cooling in the summer, and warmth retention in the winter - using sod roof, etc. They blend into the terrain, and take advantage of it for cooling and heating.

Me, precast reinforced concrete for weight bearing walls, plus ceiling and floor (with heating/cooling water tubes built in, like the Romans), south facing if heating is an issue, otherwise north facing. Good clear view of the down hill area, solar for heat when possible, heat pump for water into the ground for cooling (58 degrees 50 ft down on average) and solar for heating (aided by nat gas as needed). Solar power and wind power as much as possible. Forced air for circulation of the air (heating/cooling comes from the floors/ceilings). Pretty close to self sufficient. Maybe pump the well into a cistern at the top of the hill, for a gravity assist for the water in the house.

Hobbit hole? A bit more than that. Come to think of it it does sound like a bunker. Reinforced Concrete. Forced air = overpressure? Clear fields of fire in the "view". Below the military crest...

umm. I guess I can call that a good side effect?
20140727 01:09 OldSpook Back arrow doesn't preserve the text - at least when on the Mac using Safari. I wish the main comment thingy would do like the O-Club does - simply refuse to post, leaving the text box sitting here with the text in it. Ah well.

I gotta put together a Linux box or Billy box (Win7) and get off this chiclet keyboard and weird "magic mouse"

Just getting older and grumpier I guess.
20140726 21:21 trailing wife When a comment of mine disappears into the ether, I try using the Back arrow, up to the left of the URL bar at the top of the page. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it works when an article evaporates, too. Sometimes not.
20140726 20:56 Glenmore OS, if it eats a comment of mine I figure it wasn't worth much anyway, but if I decide to rewrite it, I do it off-site on Notepad or such, so I can keep plugging it in looking for the bad word without re-writing it all. Seldom do it, because seldom do my comments really matter anyway. Yours, on the other hand, add value.
(Don't know what I said above that was banned, but the old editor fixed it.)
20140726 20:51 OldSpook I hate it when the main site just eats a big comment of mine, without a clue as to what word triggered it, and no way to recover the post.

Just not worth it to rewrite it, Im not getting that 15 minutes back, nor am I throwing away another 15 minutes to write it again only to see it disappear without a trace or a clue.
20140726 18:09 Deacon Blues Got me, too. I said it looked like Spamalot. I hate spam. (Monty Python)
20140726 17:13 Thing From Snowy Mountain Argh! The Black Diamond Gang got me! The Dirty Rats!
20140726 11:56 Pappy Yes, it was. I'm wondering who the Burg angered this time.
20140726 11:41 OldSpook Just to be clear, wasn't a complaint - just an offer to help if you guys want to give us the ability to do so. Deleting spam is a (much cleaner) version of mucking out the stables, and if Im riding the horses then Im helping with the stables. Im sure you'd not mind the help. And this last bot was particularly persistent.
20140726 11:18 Bright Pebbles Problem with Seamen.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/navy-commander-faces-affair-claims-30461578.html
20140726 08:15 trailing wife Lots of spam recently. We all clean it up as we happen by. But I've been busy with my mother in real life lately, which means I've been around less. And yes,the previous tool available to O Clubbers disappeared in the upgrades. One of these days, when Fred has some free time, I'm sure he'll put it back in.

Mama is very happily settled in. Everything has been sorted through, and either put away, given to descendants (the trailing daughters are pleased with the demitasse cup collection, which should see a lot of use over the years), or donated to the poor. The last pictures -- the descendant collection ;-) -- will go up on the walls today, and friendships are being made and shops discovered. Life is good, if a bit exhausting.

Abu do you love, you are a generous soul. But I do give y'all my best effort -- you deserve no less.
20140725 22:17 swksvolFF S'cool. Figured something was inbound and hid in my soccer bunker. Stopped by for a biscuit and ran right into a dictionary salesmen convention. Thanks for the work you all do.
20140725 21:54 badanov I got one or two my own self. Sorry swksVolff, and Deacon Blues.
20140725 21:35 Pappy Apologies, OS. 4am spam cleanup - couldn't sleep and wasn't (and still not) completely functional.
20140725 21:25 abu do you love TW: what you lack in quantity, you more than make up for in quality.
20140725 16:48 trailing wife For all the nice Rantburgers who want it, my email address is
jssawicki at gmail.com

Without spaces, of course. And I must warn that I am a dreadful correspondent when I don't feel well or life gets busy, as a few of you can already attest.
20140725 15:48 badanov Stand by
20140725 15:17 OldSpook Give us a delete button on all messages flagged as spam?
20140725 08:48 OldSpook I had a comment but the spam harvest apparently erased it
20140725 06:08 abu do you love Holy spambots Batman!

I woulda cleaned them out, but the way I used to be able to seems to have been removed or access restricted.
20140725 00:07 trailing wife Lots of spam to clean out in the O Club this evening. I wonder what's got them so feisty all of a sudden...