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20160724 02:18 Visitor ***SPAM?*** You all need to read this website. It contains the real truth the press is hiding form you!

20160724 01:25 Ireland ***SPAM?*** http://homelandinsuranceservices.com/when-does-car-insurance-go-down.html http://lanzaswimschool.com/yukon-auto-insurance.html
20160724 00:33 badanov The Hamina class appears to be, sans the SSMs, a sub chaser.
20160724 00:31 badanov Well, while everyone is licking their wounds, sharpening their swords or loading their magazines, I am pleased to announce the Chernarusian Navy has added a new frigate class and an operations ship.

Coming very soon will be a brand spanking new fast patrol craft based on the Finnish Hamina class, due out in just a few months.

No, I did not make any of these, and yes I am supporting in Patreon one modder, a Colombian active duty military personnel, who is working on the missile boat.
20160723 23:30 Pappy Its a very ugly form of populism and nationalism driven by fear and spite

There's a few other 'drives' as well. Aryanism, for one.

Because they are not looking at the damage they are causing, who they are hurting on their way, and are not thinking about what comes after.

I think they're quite aware of the damage they're causing, and they have a clear view of what they want to come afterwards. It just doesn't involve anyone else outside of them.

The alt-right; because the Russians eschewed Hugo Boss.
20160723 23:27 OldSpook See y'all stateside next week. Actually hotter in Nashville (34) than here (32), go figure.

And say a prayer for the Kurds, they need it far worse than we do.

20160723 23:24 OldSpook So I'm a target to these people.

That's where I am now. A target. And you know what? After thinking about it, I will just have to bear up and stand my ground. I've done it before as a soldier, and as a citizen, and as a contractor. But this is new.

For the first time I will be standing against many people I thought were on the same side as me.

So be it. Here I stand. I know this is Fred's house, but I will call you out on things if you are egregiously wrong.

As for my political support, I will support those who support my principles. Slim pickings these days at a national level.

As for my vote, I will be voting my conscience, as should everyone.

20160723 23:10 OldSpook Some of them (Dale, talking to you) are hearing the conspiracy mongering from Trump with stuff like "theres something going on", just like from Alex Jones, Inforwars, Birchers and others - its all "them", a conspiracy. This lets them cast the blame for crappy outcomes on someone else, on whom they can then vent rage, vengeance and payback for all the ills and slights they have suffered whether justified or not. The left and the GOP in the beltway had done enough to cause this backlash by favoring one group over another. And this is the result - even more division.

Take a look: What happens when you call them out on it, call out the irrationality they are showing, call out the authoritarianism to which they are bowing and unquestioningly backing? Call attention to this "force of will" bullcrap that they cite instead of actual plans and policies?

What happens when you point out the lack of any real substance? And heaven help you if you point out how this facades is masked by fingerpointing, fear mongering, flat-out-lies, blustery speeches, and other psychological manipulations and propaganda techniques being used by Trump?

It results in denial that manifests as rage and vengeance directed anyone that dares question their belief or introduce them to anything that might cause them to actually realize how harmfully irrational and emotional they are being.

So if you speak up, *YOU* become part of that "other" and immediately they start in with stupid things like "You back Obama because you don't enthusiastically back Trump" "You must love Hillary because you criticize Trump", and are called "Traitor" (yes me), and other things ("Jew" is the most amusing one I've seen on Twitter because I tweeted and forgot to hide my location once).

Its a very ugly form of populism and nationalism driven by fear and spite, both of which Trump continues to whip up regularly because his election depends on the mob remaining in a blind frenzy.

Never mind things like facts. Or principles, morals and reasoning. If you are blocking spite, their path to expressing and obtaining their vengeance, you will become part of their target. Its an angry mob and like most mobs its relatively mindless, driven by raw emotion, not thinking.

Thing I think matter a lot more than any politician or payback?

Life. Liberty. Faith and Freedom. Individualism not collectivism. Responsibility not blame shifting. Constitutionalism not progressivism. Small government. Competitive Capitalism not Cronyism and State-run banks and mercantilism. Opposing moral and cultural relativism.

My values and principles seem not to matter to these folks. Not as much as getting having a Strong Man who will promise payback on the nebulous "them", those whom they perceive as having done them wrong whether correct or incorrect. Facts be damned, they're mad and someone is going to pay this time.

Spite word I was looking for all this time. Because they are not looking at the damage they are causing, who they are hurting on their way, and are not thinking about what comes after.

Its sad that it has come to this.

20160723 23:07 Pappy Some Saturday Night Lit. It seems... appropriate.

20160723 22:45 OldSpook Thing, I thing you are picking a fight with me and don't realize I'm one of the ones that was angry about this months ago. Take a pill. Or a drink. This would-be new emperor has no more clothes than the current one.

As for the Turmp supporters, I think I figured it out about some of them. The Beltway Boys Brokers and Bankers have decided they will bow down to anything that will reward them with continued access to control and power of an even larger government. That's pretty much as expected. What's unexpected is the rage with which loudest Trumpers respond. I think I placed it: they are angry, they want payback and are so spiteful they don't care what they break or who they hurt.

20160723 13:19 Thing From Snowy Mountain Vote for the fucking shitty bastard, it's important. (SPIT)
20160723 10:17 Thing From Snowy Mountain It's only in 1946, after the Soviet Union's future became assured thanks to an unending stream of industrial gear that came out of Detroit, that America's problems became an insurmountable barrier to fighting the big surviving plantation.
20160723 10:13 Thing From Snowy Mountain I wish people had made the argument about America's lack of moral authority and the ills of democracy back in 1941 and 1942.
20160723 04:18 newc Thing, nothing goes anywhere unless 2/3 States agree. It's a simple list.

Look at it, seriously. This is no free for all at all.
20160723 04:15 newc That was Lenin and Stalins' problem. Idiot Marx and Engles never gave them the plan of when government would go away and was not everything under the sun. Freaking Pagans.
20160723 01:25 Alaska Paul From Wretchard:

In the end people just go and shoot without the niceties for the convenience. By and by we will miss civilization, which is what holds barbarism and our worse natures in check. The entire apparatus of civilization is geared towards moderating raw passions it must control. The purpose of churches, custom, culture, manners and law is to restrain the Beast, because the Beast needs restraining. Unfortunately we are at a juncture where restraint may have just left town. Not only have we, in our misguided wisdom, dismantled morality, civility and even law, but on both sides of the aisle the watchword is: power by any means necessary.

The walls are down and the leaders of both the Democratic and Republican Parties have led the way in smashing them. They want the walls down and neither side will stop until they've had what Sherman called a bellyful. What could go wrong? It's easy to dismantle the Constitution, but what do we do for an encore?
20160722 23:52 3dc
20160722 21:34 Thing From Snowy Mountain newc: You'd have to have worked for a former state legislator to realize how much that idea scares me.
20160722 20:29 badanov Maintenance nightmares
20160722 19:12 SteveS Something for For Sale section of This Week in Guns? Via Vanderleun's place:
T-34 For Sale
20160722 13:56 Shipman Way off topic: Where's tu?
20160722 09:14 3dc I have said it many times before... rather than elections of people who want the job we would be much better served by elections from random pools of people who don't want the job. Oh and just maybe make parties illegal while at it.

In the meantime... at least infrastructure and jobs will be visited by the real estate mogul.
20160721 23:01 Pappy I stand by my remark.

20160721 22:54 newc Only state Leg's handle this. No one from the federal government. Congress opens and closes it as soon as it is passed. That's it.
20160721 22:43 newc Read it for fucks sakes. If states do not agree, it does not go forward. This is not a Constitutional Convention. It's not a debate. States agree to these dozen things or not or it never goes forward.

20160721 22:20 badanov We are so screwed, and I don't even have to listen to Trump's acceptance speech.
20160721 21:36 badanov A real blast from the past:

20160721 19:44 Pappy Article V Convention of States: The political version of the Wacky Races. Tho I do like the steam-locomotive-versus-a-dumpster-on-fire imagery better.
20160721 19:31 badanov AKA Lawyers' Convention.

Not interested.
20160721 18:11 Alaska Paul Article V conventions can be co-opted.
20160721 17:44 Thing From Marc Antony Mountain Can you trust the plurality of people who either thought Trump was a good candidate or Hillary was a good candidate to handle an Article V Convention without it turning into another high-speed collision of a Steam Locomotive with a dumpster on fire?
20160721 17:21 newc The only way out of this is Article V Convention of States (PDF)
20160721 17:02 Thing From Snowy Mountain Kodos 2016
20160721 16:30 badanov My main political focus has been to look for politicians who will reduce the size, scope and power of government at all levels, and concomitantly increase the level of civil liberties, and that includes economic liberty. Which means elimination/reduction of government regulations and reducing the amount government takes from the economy as a whole, either through tax reductions, cutting government outlays or both.

Neither Trump nor Hillary fits that bill, and the Libertarian ticket is an even bigger mess than the Trump takeover of the republican party.

I don't support Trump, but come November I will cast a straight ticket vote.

I don't like the choices any better than you do, but we must play the hand we are dealt.
20160721 16:26 Deacon Blues I ment working class, not just class.
20160721 14:56 Thing From Marc Antony Mountain In short, I hate the situation and feel very bitter. If I think about it I'll lapse into Tourettes' again, so please forgive that. Anytime I find something I could agree with about Trump he goes all "Let's sell the Baltics..."

20160721 14:53 Thing From Marc Antony Mountain I come not to praise Cruz, but to bury his career.

OS: You should have asked us when we had a choice. Brutus and Cassius are both the Party Nominee and Both Honorable Men And Excellent Candidates. You're a shithead idiot cocksucker for implying otherwise.

At least until November Ninth. Then, one way or another, we can tell the truth with all the bitterness in our hearts.

I've graduated from having to deal with familial Alzheimer's problems, to now dealing with Civilizational-level alzheimer's. We have cancer need chemo, but have a choice between the Cyanide Kool-Aid Candidate and the Snake Oil Candidate. The least dumb, least dishonorable thing we can do is say: Take the Snake Oil, It's Important, because noone who takes the Cyanide ever comes back and changes their mind about the chemo.
20160721 14:50 Deacon Blues O S, people around here, and I think most people, really don't care right now what Turkey and Russia do. They support Trump because the Hope and Change has resulted in a lower standard of living, lower wages, and fewer jobs while hiking taxes and health care costs. They see Trump as a U. S. Businessman who has the interests of the American class as a first priority. We have lived through the dumbing-down of schools and universities and the destruction of law. They are tired of the PC bullshit and Trump has certainly spoken to all these issues. They are disillusioned with the establishment Republicans who promised to reign in Obama and then rubber stamped almost everything he did.
20160721 14:46 Pappy Little wonder that the alt-right* is enamored with him.

Well, maybe not enamored - more like they like having a ticking time-bomb.

*An old-Euro phenom IMNSHO -- the difference being that the Prussians didn't wear Hugo Boss.
20160721 14:24 OldSpook I am genuinely asking this, not provoking, but trying to figure out what is in your heads - what do you see that I do not.

Trump and his waffling on NATO against Russia is not helpful at all. At least he hasn't done brought out Hillary's Reset button, but this calling the Baltics a "suburb of St Petersburg" is opening the door to Russian aggression.

And the stuff with Erdogan is frankly pretty much the same as Obama, or possibly even worse in that he condones the actions of Erdogan and his crackdown. Is he that massively ignorant, or does he simply not care about the movement toward the Caliphate and the disaster that would be for Western civilization?

Fred, or one of you other Trump supporting people, please explain your candidate and why he is saying such idiotic things. Explain him and his horribly ignorant statements to the NY Times. Please.

20160721 14:11 OldSpook Good lord. What the hell is going on in the US? Have the police gone just as insane as the BLM terrorists?


There had better be a nearly immediate arrest and criminal charges against that idiot who shot 3 times at an unarmed man, a therapist, laying on his back there with his hands in the air. Criminally negligent discharge of the firearm initially, while the investigate more serious charges. Take the badge and gun away and put that bad cop in jail immediately.

What is wrong with people? I see police state insanity of this sort overseas but I sure as hell never expected to see it in the US.

Speaking of which, why is Trump stepping on his crank again re: Putin and NATO? And also refuses to criticize Erdogans fake coup?

"I don't think we have a right to lecture. Look at what is happening in our country."

That sounds like Hillary or Obama's crowd talking!

Is he really that damned stupid?
20160721 10:42 trailing wife Eek! Premature posting strikes again! Sorry about that.

To continue:

...the Scot-Irish idea of individual liberty and responsibility versus the Puritan idea of liberty of the community living and acting together in submission to agreed-upon rules and government, the mid-Atlantic Quakers who valued tolerance and acceptance... and like the Puritans, heavy government nvolvement in regulating daily life, and the duty-bound aristos of the coastal south with their servants in a more hierarchal society.

So all of those ways of being American are equally historically legitimate. Adding a layer of difficulty, each uses the same vocabulary to mean very different things, leading to anger and confusion.

The way of the tea partiers nowadays is mostly Scots-Irish, I think, the old style Republicans more that of the Virginai aristos. The overarching idea of the Democrats is that of the Quakers overlain with the Puritan thought control.

I've got to run, so have to cut this short. I hope it helps, at least to start.
20160721 10:10 trailing wife Welcome to the conversation, jefe101! I lurked here for ages before daring to speaking up, too. But it isn't really for just officers, whatever that means in Rantburg's context. It's just a chat room -- everyone is welcome to join in. :-)

Philosophy? We can do that. A goood start, if you're up to some reading, might be Albion's Seed, about the original settlement of the clonies by four waves from different regions of England, each with a different approach to life (the author calls these "folkways", which includes expectations of the citizenry vs. government and approach to dating and marriage). These basic folkways have continued to this day, as the populations from those initial settlements have maintained cultural cohesion is they spread west. So we have the idea from the Scots-Irish of individual liberty and responsibility, from
20160721 09:18 3dc I think it's like this: Want-a-be Democratic Tyrants of all scales are always American. (Madigan on up) Anybody not a member of the Democratic Party isn't American.

Contradictions are ignored - therefore J. Davis was American but not Lincoln or Grant.
20160721 08:13 Shipman Hard question indeed. Lemme cogitate for awhile and wait for the heavies to respond.
20160721 02:25 jefe101 stupid intro disregard. My knowledge of O clubs is from movies and ... :) Anyway, as we have all seen, the situation in the RNC is not cool, the current admin is setting new lows and the DNC is fanatical as ever, combined with the general lawlessness: As a hypothetical conjecture I am asking where is the line?
This may seem a drastic question, please allow me to draw a paralllel. In religion there is system of beliefs and a code of behaviour. Once you go beyond that you are no longer a member. you may feel like a member and think like a member, but at that point it's up to the lord. In this same sense is nationality, that of an American, what is an American and what makes up an American and where is the line between those things which are un-American?
20160721 02:04 jefe101 While I scan this from time to time, I haven't ever commented. Is it OK to ask a simple question with a hard answer here?
20160720 14:31 Alaska Paul Mainstream Media Fatigue and Anger Dept:

20160720 10:24 Shipman Someone yesterday observed that a typhoon could take out the artificial islands the fiendishly clever Chinee have built. Ever seen the wake an LCS makes? Finally a tactical use!
20160720 08:25 Mullah Richard A salute, OS.

You do what you can.
20160720 01:00 OldSpook Wrapping up loose ends, handing off to young men who still can talk themselves into thinking they can make a difference. I'm done. After this, its all kibitzing; I'll have done my last of anything meaningful. Maybe time to just take some sights in.

God help those people, they are good people. We tried, but its not enough.

I wonder if I should play Back In The USSR for my flight back? Nah. For the moment, this fits, sort of.

20160720 00:57 OldSpook It occurs to me that this was Erdogan's Reichstag fire.

20160719 20:17 3dc http://www.defensetech.org/2016/07/18/us-likely-to-keep-nukes-in-turkey-despite-coup-attempt/
20160719 17:52 trailing wife Fascinating bit of work, Skidmark. Grade 12 vs. 14 -- so much for stupid. I don't doubt that President Obama did it deliberately.

newc, thank you for explaining about the spammers. Now I know why I'm happy. :-)
20160719 17:48 trailing wife Shipman's comment of 11:06 today, minus the overlong URL:

Pappy, Think it will be a Persian Rug or some cheap Chinee knock-0ff?

The boys have already imported crates of Billy Jealousy.

20160719 17:27 Dale A little history reminder from a Vet yesterday; http://www.rpadden.com/bonus/dugoutdoug.htm
20160719 11:53 Skidmark The 'Stolen Words' media blowup is another sensationalist mashup. In graduate school I did a linguistics study on presidential (Clinton, Bush, Obama) SotU addresses. Interesting trivia:
1) Word comprehension ratings put Clinton and Obama speeches at 12th grade level, Bush at 2+ years of college.
2) Obama's speeches were only 10-13 words different in length from Clinton's.
3) Tone, content, cadence and subject matter staging in Obama's 2nd aligned within 3sd of Clinton's 2nd.

Same semantic meaning, same context. Inspection of their respective videos suggested same delivery in pitch, volume, pauses and crowd gazes.

Stolen valor indeed. I wonder why the furor over the wives?
20160719 11:37 Skidmark Blame it on the meds Ship.
20160719 11:07 Shipman Aw shit sorry
20160719 00:11 trailing wife Good lord, badanov -- that just hurts! Send it back to the author for a rewrite, starting with removing the irritating condescension...though that would leave very little indeed, and that uninteresting.