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20180223 11:05 DaschaLunse ***SPAM?*** Генрих Линг, сын священника, готовился продолжать деятельность отца. Окончив курс в университете города Упсала, он уехал в Европу, сопровождая своего знатного соотечественника. В дороге Линг заболел, судя по описанию, ревматизмом, от которого лечился у многих знаменитых врачей, но не получил исцеления. В Копенгагене Линг познакомился с двумя французскими эмигрантами и брал у них уроки фехтования. Занятия фехтованием облегчили его ревматические боли, после чего он всецело занялся изучением гимнастики и, тщательно и всесторонне ознакомившись с анатомией и физиологией, написал учебник гимнастики.
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20180223 08:43 trailing wife Thank you for the thoughtful reply, swksvolFF. Cleaned up, that would indeed make a good Sunday opinion piece.

I have no idea how newc managed what he did — to be honest it is completely unclear to me what he did. Perhaps 3dc can figure it out.
20180222 22:24 newc You should publish it.
20180222 22:23 newc No you added. And I used the same name as you in my reply. That one is my fault. And I should have known better but i was not familiar with this form of chat until I looked at the title bar. Had you not posted, I would still not have your masterpiece here.


It is very refreshing to hear people with real answers.
20180222 22:15 swksvolFF *I forgot to add, not you newc. The shiracha and chili were dominating my thought at the moment. Discovered those little packets quite handy.

Funny story. Once a future wife made chili. Family member came to visit. Fixed up a bowl of chili and started squirting it into the chili like it was ketchup. Member claims he was showing off. I think he thought it was ketchup. Anyways, two hours of hiccupping later...
20180222 22:15 newc Your post should be an article. It's how to prevent The #CowardOfBroward
20180222 22:13 newc You have a good point here tho.
20180222 22:12 newc I opened your post to print it and replied but it is the same database schema as yours so I wiped it out. Sorry again.
20180222 22:12 swksvolFF *forgot to add the opening two lines are of course tw on yesterday's post concerning 250 teachers applying for 50 slot concealed carry class.
20180222 22:11 newc You posted :

At some point one of these volunteer defenders will shoot back and accidentally hit an innocent bystander. How are they, the school district, and the county to be protected from the inevitable lawsuits that will follow?

Seriously. I had to listen to Mr. Wife go on about that this morning.

Good question, because he is absolutely right. No waivers or signed consent will prevent this.

So, for review, last night's campfire:

Have a pre-signed and ratified declaration that at the very instant a firearm is used by a bad guy on school grounds, pre-selected and approved teachers and staff are instantly deputized pro temp, and remain county sheriff deputies until relieved by an on-scene ranking member of the sheriff's department and/or the incident commander. This will afford the responding teacher/staff legal protections (and responsibilities) of a law enforcement member.

Now being a county measure we override any of the local mayor, city council, homeowner association, city police quagmire of committees and petitions. Teacher/staff will have available legal advice, medical coverage, and stress counseling.

But the Sheriff department is not going to like being exposed to potential lawsuits and increased insurance, so the teacher/staff are going to need an acceptable level of training and preparedness. Teacher/staff will need to complete and pass at least the basic requirement conceal carry class. I would suggest also a marksmanship class, a first aid class with an emphasis on gunshot wounds, and some time in one of those training rooms where they give you a light gun and run scenarios at you.

I would also suggest the handgun and kit be approved by the sheriff's department, especially the holster. This all costs money, so who pays for that "if we can't even provide the classrooms with crayons!" (a bs argument; out here the parents buy the supplies, anyways) and is a legit concern. Example: a 1911 or a dirty harry cannon are probably not a good idea, and the holster should have way to keep the firearm from just falling out or grabbed by student. Cost, it could be appealing to the firearm community, one of the tightest communities I have ever come across, and I think a good chunk of the financial burden can get covered. We have seen already from the thread you posted on that there are those will to train pro bono, and I would suspect there are many who will offer free or reduced cost classes to teachers and staff. 1 handgun, two magazines, and 200 rounds one time business expense write-off was brought up. Philanthropy was another. A third was, "They will get paid more, so they can afford it."

I'm not completely sold on that one. This should be a volunteer only program to keep out those who just see a paycheck, but with the added responsibilities, cost of training, etc. a pay raise is definitely appropriate and would increase the number of participants which increases deterrence. If those expenses can't be written off as business related, that money will have to be found in the employees' budget. Could have some bake sales. Could have the insurance company reduce premiums as it is now a safer work environment.

To round up the project, the sheriff department and all involved are going to have to put together a list of standard operating procedures, and it will have to be comprehensive as when that lawsuit comes, and you know there will be any number of Bloomberg sponsored lawyers picking through this, we need that extra bit of armor. Tough questions, like 'can the teacher fire first? if so what exact circumstances must be met?', 'which comes first evacuation or engagement? can the teacher actively search for shooter?', 'does the teacher have to announce them self? if so, what commands or attire are necessary?', 'are bodycams required? If so, must they be conspicuous?' to infinity and beyond. All incidents are reviewed just like any other LEO shooting or incident. Random drug tests. Refresher and requalification courses. Very doable.
20180222 22:09 swksvolFF Hey no prob. Afraid I posted a no-no.
20180222 22:09 swksvolFF ummm...not sure what happened to my post, though I do not disagree.

We did an active shooter drill. Couldn't figure out how to keep the town from storming the school.
20180222 22:06 newc LOL Whoops!
20180222 22:06 newc Wait, that was me. Sorry SWK
20180222 21:18 swksvolFF I try to fix. swksvolIFF wrote "
At some point one of these volunteer defenders will shoot back and accidentally hit an innocent bystander. How are they, the school district, and the county to be protected from the inevitable lawsuits that will follow?

Seriously. I had to listen to Mr. Wife go on about that this morning.

Good question, because he is absolutely right. No waivers or signed consent will prevent this.

So, for review, last night's campfire:

Have a pre-signed and ratified declaration that at the very instant a firearm is used by a bad guy on school grounds, pre-selected and approved teachers and staff are instantly deputized pro temp, and remain county sheriff deputies until relieved by an on-scene ranking member of the sheriff's department and/or the incident commander. This will afford the responding teacher/staff legal protections (and responsibilities) of a law enforcement member.

Now being a county measure we override any of the local mayor, city council, homeowner association, city police quagmire of committees and petitions. Teacher/staff will have available legal advice, medical coverage, and stress counseling.

But the Sheriff department is not going to like being exposed to potential lawsuits and increased insurance, so the teacher/staff are going to need an acceptable level of training and preparedness. Teacher/staff will need to complete and pass at least the basic requirement conceal carry class. I would suggest also a marksmanship class, a first aid class with an emphasis on gunshot wounds, and some time in one of those training rooms where they give you a light gun and run scenarios at you.

I would also suggest the handgun and kit be approved by the sheriff's department, especially the holster. This all costs money, so who pays for that "if we can't even provide the classrooms with crayons!" (a bs argument; out here the parents buy the supplies, anyways) and is a legit concern. Example: a 1911 or a dirty harry cannon are probably not a good idea, and the holster should have way to keep the firearm from just falling out or grabbed by student. Cost, it could be appealing to the firearm community, one of the tightest communities I have ever come across, and I think a good chunk of the financial burden can get covered. We have seen already from the thread you posted on that there are those will to train pro bono, and I would suspect there are many who will offer free or reduced cost classes to teachers and staff. 1 handgun, two magazines, and 200 rounds one time business expense write-off was brought up. Philanthropy was another. A third was, "They will get paid more, so they can afford it."

I'm not completely sold on that one. This should be a volunteer only program to keep out those who just see a paycheck, but with the added responsibilities, cost of training, etc. a pay raise is definitely appropriate and would increase the number of participants which increases deterrence. If those expenses can't be written off as business related, that money will have to be found in the employees' budget. Could have some bake sales. Could have the insurance company reduce premiums as it is now a safer work environment.

To round up the project, the sheriff department and all involved are going to have to put together a list of standard operating procedures, and it will have to be comprehensive as when that lawsuit comes, and you know there will be any number of Bloomberg sponsored lawyers picking through this, we need that extra bit of armor. Tough questions, like 'can the teacher fire first? if so what exact circumstances must be met?', 'which comes first evacuation or engagement? can the teacher actively search for shooter?', 'does the teacher have to announce them self? if so, what commands or attire are necessary?', 'are bodycams required? If so, must they be conspicuous?' to infinity and beyond. All incidents are reviewed just like any other LEO shooting or incident. Random drug tests. Refresher and requalification courses. Very doable.
20180222 10:16 3dc Elon:
Missed by a few hundred meters, but fairing landed intact in water. Should be able catch it with slightly bigger chutes to slow down descent.

20180222 09:44 3dc 2 SpaceX test sats for their Starlink network now in orbit. They are the ugliest sats ever.
20180221 16:43 badanov Some days I absolutely suck at Arma 3.

This is one of those days.
20180220 21:29 badanov Some Rushin' Collusion, Tovarishche:

20180220 11:12 Deacon Blues Skid, I'm just the messenger. Thanks badanov.
20180219 19:42 badanov Fixed.
20180219 19:17 Skidmark DB, I don’t know that I would want to be blamed for that bad news.
20180219 18:40 Deacon Blues Moderators, I just posted a story about the looming tequila shortage and forgot to change the poster to Deacon Blues. I just got a new computer and I forgot I have to put in my handle.
20180219 17:00 badanov Some Monday afternoon Pure Prairie League:

20180219 15:24 3dc Hold my horses. Is Putin's Chef named by Muller the same Putin's Chef that owns the PMC we blew away when it attacked in Syria?
20180219 00:44 badanov Some late Sunday night Mountain:

20180219 00:00 Alaska Paul That was a great performance with bango and emotion in Cool Hand Luke. Masterful delivery.
20180218 23:49 Alaska Paul Yes, Glenmore. There is that version, heh....
20180218 20:21 Glenmore Then there's the Cool Hand Luke version, Paul.
20180218 18:55 Alaska Paul Here is a video of Ted McCormac at O'Conner's Pub in Doolin, County Claire, in Ireland, singing his version of the Plastic Jesus song. I was there 3 years ago and I sang the chorus with Ted in an old tyme church harmony. Total fun evening.
20180218 17:05 Frank G I just think they attack across the LOC because...that's what their bosses require