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20140922 11:09 Pappy Or no money to do so...
20140922 10:39 Glenmore Spent a end-of-season week at the beach. Great weather. Seriously fewer people than this exact time and place last year. Recovering economy?
20140922 08:38 Dale Start off the week with a kick;
20140922 03:38 trailing wife All that could be true, gentlemen. And as there are a small number of Israeli volunteers on both sides of the conflict, there may be more such stories in the future -- a side effect of being an ingathering from all the nations.

Thank you.
20140921 22:39 badanov Russians also have a habit of extreme hazing in their units, and those practices are condoned by the cadre and ignored by officers until someone get seriously hurt. If you are from a minority, the hazing gets worse, the smaller your number.
20140921 22:37 badanov Another thing to consider: Said Israeli may have been unaware of just how harsh conditions are in a Russian lead infantry unit even under the best of times, then he joined the militias. The militias relied heavily on captured munitions and probably foraged for everything else they could find.

In fact the Russian Army logistical system, like the militias, pretty runs as it has since WWI in that infantry units must forage for food and water. Everything else, ammo fuel and medical help is doled out according to "The

If you are issued 60 rounds of ammunition that is because planners at headquarters expect you to fire that many before they can get more ammunition to the front. If you fire more or you run out, you best hold on until relieved.

That is an example from a military unit of the move. On static defense, the conditions are a little better, in that there are no supplies to outrun.

That can affect a soldier who expects a more modern less harsh environment for fighting.
20140921 21:02 badanov Perhaps it is important to consider the means of transmission.
20140921 21:00 Pappy Maybe they didn't need to prompt him...
20140921 20:51 badanov TW: My guess would be he was angrier about the antisemitism he suffered with the militias, and the Ukrainians just want him to go home coz they are as bad as the militias, and they didn't need the fallout from those revelations.


"So, tovarishch. How about you keep quiet about all that crap and just say what we tell you to say."
20140921 19:29 Pappy Perhaps he was talking about the groups he was working with? That, as an outsider (and perhaps, a Jew,) our Israeli combatant wouldn't be accepted by the more 'professional' outfits?

Rather reminds me of stories told by the disillusioned about the Congo or the Foreign Legion. Or Lebanon during the civil war; stories there told of getting paid a pack of cigarettes a day.
20140921 18:58 badanov Then all those videos I saw of combat were just elaborately staged plays then?
20140921 18:46 trailing wife Ynet article about an Israeli who went to Ukraine to fight with the separatists, was captured, and now was released as part of the prisoner exchange:

Sharing his views on the separatists to the Ukrainian TV channel, Vatko said: "I think they changed for the worse."

He also described the separatist leaders as "groups of bandits or half-criminal groups", adding that they did not engage in combat, but rather "searched for solutions for their problems" and were mainly interested in capturing new territories.
20140921 12:13 Pappy Wretchard:

Glenn Greenwald tries to solve a mystery. Why does the Muslim world hate Obama? Greenwald gleefully rips into Andrew Sullivan’s prediction that Obama’s election would make America a hit in the Islamic world. He cites a poll finding that 92% of Pakistanis (Sullivan’s example) “disapprove of US leadership”. So what went wrong? Greenwald says this reversal of fortune can be easily explained. “America is a rogue nation”, Greenwald concludes and the hatred for Obama is the natural result his policy of launching drone attacks in so many countries

Perhaps the real reason that the Muslim world misgives Obama is they believe he is a Muslim, and therefore not to be trusted. Sullivan imagines that a “young Pakistani Muslim” would trust someone like himself, when in fact a young Pakistani Muslim might more readily trust someone not like himself. For someone like himself would take sides in one of the many factional disputes that divide his society.

When Obama stopped being an outsider and became one of the tribesmen then he became part of the problem, not the unifying, attractive figure Sullivan imagined.

Which reminds me of the story about an African professional boarding an aircraft. He would first check the cockpit and look at the flight crew. If they weren't African, he would then take his seat.
20140920 15:29 Bright Pebbles http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2762774/Honor-Blackman-Sean-Connery-hypocrite-turned-CBE.html

The spy who didn't love me.
20140920 13:40 Bright Pebbles
20140920 04:23 badanov I get the uneasy, but distinct feeling that Putin is gonna hang those men in Novorossiya out to dry, and will in exchange for an agreement with NATO.

I suspect that Don3tsk PM Zarachenko did too and that is why he brokered this latest truce, to get what he still can while he still can.
20140919 23:12 Skidmark Dalai Lama walks into a Pizza shop and says: "Make me one with everything."
20140919 23:09 Skidmark Moon Landing cool
20140919 21:42 badanov OS: If Putin makes his move to "annex" Ukraina, he will probably do it in December.

I think it will be a multi axis operation beginning with light infantry company heliborne or paraborne air assault in several crossings of the Dnepr starting with the Dnepr estuary going north to and ending at Zaparozhe. Crossings at Kherson, Nova Kakhovka and Zaparozhe. Immediately coming up from the Crimea will be at least two airborne divisions, possibly on a straight up road march from Sevastopol.

Then from the east, Putin will "cancel" the Novorossiya drive for independence, "convincing" them that Russian federation is better for them than that nasty, messy independence thing, then move his maneuver divisions west. He doesn't need a contiguous line running across the north, because they are all Russian speaking and generally sympathetic, or maybe just quiet.

I say December because by then the humanitarian crisis in Novorossiya will begin to hit hard, and Putin's "concern" for his Russian speaking tovarishchi will take over his better judgement.

Plus the ground will be hard enough to support his tanks. And he'll still send in his second string. We won't see his front line troops, similar to what he did in South Ossetia.

By then, also most of Ukraina's second and third echelon forces will be immolated by the militias, and all that will be left will be the regular Ukrainian Army, in fortifications behind the Dnepr, being built as we speak. IOW, Ukrainian expect Putin to do this thing.

Despite all his bluster, it will still take the Russian Army two months to move up to the Dnepr River line, even unopposed. By then they will have outrun their supply and will be forced to stop. But they will make the river line.

A foraging army could be an unpopular army.

What happens in the spring: plebiscites and appeals to Bratsi Russkaya, and the final tally. Putin wins.

This all assume that oil prices do not collapse, which appears they already have and the collapse will temper for a few months, and then continue. Putin has this one window after the fall rains and before the spring rains.

On a separate note: Did you read how the governor appointed by Piotr Parasheko (the governor's name escapes me at the moment) stating emphatically that the Russian Army doesn't fight in the winter?

Must be Harvard edumacated, I s'pect.
20140919 08:06 Dale Poldar posted this; "The Icelandic eruption in 1815 led to the Year without summer in 1816 for Europe, Asia and North America…some of the coldest winters ever that year. Massachusetts recorded a hard freeze at least 1 night every month of the year….and there was snow in NY state in August".
20140919 05:20 trailing wife Peacenik, not peacemaker.
20140919 00:29 badanov Obama won't 0rder "b00ts on the gr0und". He believes his own bullsh*t and to that end will not do anything to mess up his image as peacemaker/peacenik/whatever.

There's no problem for the military. They will go through the motions, and so will Obama. It's not a deadly dance for them, nor for him. Just order war at 20,000 feet and when the Islamic Krazees act in any way in line with his beliefs, he will declare victory, high five Reggie and head for the links.
20140919 00:09 Pappy wretchard:

The Enemy, unlike the military, are under no obligation to fulfill Obama’s wishes. ISIS insolence may cause the president to revisit his command decision before the end. But it puts the armed forces in an age old bind. What should they do when ordered to act against their better judgment? For most of recorded military history subordinates have struggled with this exact situation; serving under commanders whom they were bound to obey yet sworn to serve. There is a very subtle difference between the two and it is an able commander indeed who can do both.

The US military cannot of course disobey president Obama, however foolish his instructions might be. But like many soldiers through history, they can anticipate; they prepare for situations their commander might not have considered; namely, what if it all goes wrong? For in many cases the problem is how to give a commander in chief what he would probably like, whatever he deserves.

President Obama’s plan to fight ISIS may work. But most probably it will not. In the event that his strategy collapses, someone has to be ready to save his bacon. At least they should have a plan he brilliantly thought of but only saw for the first time ready for his signature.
20140918 23:04 badanov 3dc: Beats he hell out of downloading a new version of flash for Firefox in Linux
20140918 21:07 3dc Google chrome insists on its own wrapper for flash called Pepper. For debian linux Wheezy release their lastest and greatest uses a lib-c that doesn't yet exist in Wheezy. That's the one library you shouldn't change on a linux release as every program uses it. They broke it good. Careless labor?
20140918 20:18 Dale Gimme some of dat Beatnik times also. I'm hip baby.

20140918 16:36 badanov Some good old fashi0ned hippie music, Collective Soul:

20140918 15:06 Thing From Snowy Mountain The Communist Insurgency was mainly concentrated in the Chinese minority and antagonistic to the Malay majority population of the area; it was kinda-sorta an ethnic conflict disguised as a communist insurgency. Its main purpose may not have been to win but to drain resources.
20140918 14:36 Deacon Blues One faction of Occupy Wall Street is suing anotherfor control of the Twitter account and 500 grand. Am I bad for giggling uncontrollably?
20140918 10:30 Thing From Snowy Mountain The Brits in Malaysia. A major aspect was the Briggs Plan.

The Chinese Communists, well, everywhere. The North Vietnamese in South Vietnam. The Vietnamese in Cambodia, more or less. Burma in the Shan States. Pakistan in Balochistan.

Indonesia is only NOT in East Timor because of Australia.

Finally, Fujimori in Peru more or less eviscerated the Shining Path for a generation before the People decided it wasn't important.
20140918 10:08 OldSpook iPad ate my post while editing it. It got rejected by the filter, and the browser planked the text box on reload

Suffice to say it explains my thoughts as to why I don't beleive the Brits Malay experience is applicable despite it being my usual reference in how to handle insurgencies. Also Japan and Roman were 2 separate cases. Roman decimation changes people that do it.
20140918 08:11 Deacon Blues Interesting thing about W. T. Sherman. He said that if the US had lost the war he probably would have been tried for war crimes. He tried to do a lot for the South after the war but was stymied by the Radical Republicans. At the Battle of Fallen Timbers after Shiloh Nathan B. Forrest was so close to Sherman he would have killed him but Forrest's pistol was empty. Forrest always lamented about not having one more round.
20140918 00:10 abu do you love SteveS: Last time around the "unidentified planes" turned out to be Egypt and the UAE.
20140917 23:56 SteveS Two reports in today's 'Burg about air strikes in Libya involving "unidentified planes". Could these be forces contracted for by the mythical Minderbender Enterprises?
"Free Markets - making war better. For everyone"
20140917 22:18 Pappy The last people to do that effectively were the Romans

The Brits in Malaysia. A major aspect was the Briggs Plan.
20140917 21:48 Thing From Snowy Mountain I'm not a Rand Paul isolationist but this leaves me noone to vote for.

20140917 21:47 Thing From Snowy Mountain It looks like the Idiots in Regress gave Big Idiot what he wanted re: "moderate Syrian rebels." I suspect Qatar is happy, but I'm not.
20140917 16:40 3dc TW - to me it looks more Grendel brood mothers and the brood.
Perhaps Beowulf is what's needed.
20140917 13:44 trailing wife Thank you, OldSpook. I've been pondering Gen. Sherman a lot recently, and that within ISIS territory -- and Boko Haram as well -- there aren't that many true civilians... at least not the kind that are innocents. There are the jihadi fighters and their leaders, the former Baathists who think they're using ISIS to accomplish the reconquest of Iraq, the Sunnis happy to take advantage of the situation (fellow travellers), and the slaves. Were I a slave, I would happily trade my continued existence for the destruction of the Caliphate, that others would not have to become slaves... and the rest deserve whatever happens to them. Given that the education system to turn children into little jihadis and jihadi baby makers, even the children need to be freed.

Do you think that winning WWII as we did changed the character of the U.S.? Would not losing the war have changed us as well, and considerably for the worse, independent of what losing to the Nazis would have done? It seems to me that winning that war did us less harm than the subsequent Cold War did, but quite probably I'm not qualified to judge such things.
20140917 12:13 3dc SWJ is reporting that Obama is meeting with Austin today on ISIS strategy. No explanation who Austin is (Austin Bay?)
20140917 12:10 3dc http://s1212.photobucket.com/user/friendly222/media/Dragon-CST100OK_zps10d72969.jpg.html
20140917 11:53 49 Pan Naw Skid, Your good, I'm just numb...
20140917 11:43 Thing From Snowy Mountain Aah, back on my KeyBrain.
20140917 09:57 tfsfone Bad, Then he figures he doesn't have to be responsible for anything anymore, ya think?
20140917 09:53 OldSpook TW the fundamental truth is that the only way to defeat such an insurgency quickly is to be more bloody than they are - literally decimate the populations in which they hide, and if they continue to resist, introduce them to the fate of Carthage.

The last people to do that effectively were the Romans, which is why they were dominant for many centuries, and why they died off when they were no longer willing to shed blood like that. And shedding blood like that changes the character of a person, and IMHO a nation/civilization as well.

Another alternative is to fight the long war.

Victory requires that the vanquished pay a price that cannot be sustained either over the short term (decimation and death) or long term (economic devastation and blockade, starvation, denial of aid, medical economic aid, inflicting misery upon misery while they still resist and support those who resist). And for the victory and peace to be long-term, its the culture that needs to be not just defeated but shattered and discredited. c.f. Japan & Germany WW2.

If we truly want to win this, then our target must be (militant) Islam - it must be discredited, shattered and ground down to the point that it is an embarrassment to be associated with it like Nazism is today. Perhaps a good model is the reformation of the Imperial Japan belief system, which was shattered but allowed to exist only as a neutered version of itself. But that still presupposes a shattering and defeat of Wahabbi/Salafist/Sunni and Militant Shia Islam.

Fundamental to all approaches is to recognize that this is an ENEMY, and that they must be killed, and that their supporters must be made to pay a price for that support.
20140917 09:45 OldSpook Pappy, its true - every now and then I kick the living shit outta me.
20140917 00:45 badanov Barky ain't trying to win. He's trying to get through to January